Andrew Kerr and Teddy Goldstein

Both Andrew Kerr and Teddy Goldstein are talented singer/songwriters who bring great energy and humor to their live performances.  Meeting in New York City in the mid '90s, Andrew and Teddy formed a strong professional, and personal, relationship that is a treat to experience firsthand. If you like intelligent lyrics infused with self-effacing humor, you need to check out Kerr and Goldstein's work, including Kerr's most recent CD entitled Silver Suitcases.  Way Cool Music sat down with Kerr and Goldstein to learn about surviving friendship in the music business, writing for others and what really might be on the other side of a rainbow.

WC:

How many years ago was this?

TG:

In '95.

AK:

Actually, we started by bonding over James Taylor trivia.  We both were huge James Taylor fans.  We would say a line of any James Taylor song.

TG:

Not even a line; just say a word.

AK:

Yeah. We would say a word like, "Sea."

TG:

What's an example?

AK:

Porpoise...

TG:

Oh, that's good..."And the porpoise has the blues/ My recollection's faulty and I cannot find my shoes/ And my wiring is misfiring/ Let it fall down, let it fall down, let it fall, fall, fall."  And then he would get a point.

AK:

You only get one point for porpoise?

TG:

Well, then I would come up with another one that's pretty tough.  Something from 'Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon.'

AK:

I would be pretty sketchy with that one cuz I lost that one.

WC:

Describe your individual writing process.

AK:

My individual writing process usually starts with·these days it's different.  Early on, I would write the full song in advance and then I would put it to music.  I would write it in verse, like a poem, and then put it to music.  Now, it tends to be that, a lot of times, I will by playing the piano or guitar and there's just a vibe or feel to what I'm playing that I really like.  Then, I will start singing the most pathetic, ridiculous words, and they are always really cliche and cheesy and really bad.  And then, at some point, I say, "I really like that."  Usually, there's a line or two that I find are really cool and have a hook to it.  Then, I'll come back to it and tear it apart to rewrite it.

WC:

Are you recording that?

AK:

Usually, I'll put it on my cell phone or play it enough times so I won't forget it. Because you do worry about losing that little melodic thing you have.  Then, you have to have it make sense.

TG:

I usually read a book like the Joy Luck Club, anything by Amy Tan.

WC:

Does she have more than one book?

TG:

No, I just reread that one a lot.

AK:

You usually drink a Coke to get in the mood, don't you?

TG:

Yeah, I usually have a soda.  No, I usually come up with the music first.  And, I feel like if it's a good enough melody, then it says a few lines to you.  Then, you have to work for the second verse... and bridge... and the third verse.

AK:

Totally, but the first idea·

TG:

It blows out and you're like, "Shit."  It's like you are hearing it for the first time yourself.  But, then you have to go back and wonder why did that come out.  Then, you have to go back and do the writing.

AK:

And, you can't just repeat the same verse.

TG:

Exactly.  If songs could be 10 seconds long, I'd have a million of them.  But, it's a bitch when you have to go back and write the second verse.

AK:

Like with 'Jealousy,' you probably just started with the first verse, "What's the matter with a little old-fashioned jealousy/ Just enough to know that you care for me?"

TG:

I usually write melody first, and the chorus.

WC:

Even though your lyrics are so descriptive?

TG:

Yeah, I know.

AK:

At first, we try things out on each other.  And, we say, "That verse isn't really working."  Then, you hear it later and it's not even the same song.  We tear our stuff apart.  If you're really critical about the words, then the song never comes together.

WC:

Have you two ever written anything together?

TG:

We haven't.

AK:

I've written with Anne (Heaton).  We don't officially do songwriting credits on each other's things.  But, when I was recording 'More For Me,' Teddy, Edie (Carey) and Sam Shaber were all in the studio with me.  We wanted to record it that day, but I didn't have a chorus and I didn't know what to do.  I had it on a chalkboard.  I'd say, "I need it to feel like this... want to be... more for me... we need a rhyme."  He'd help edit tons of my songs and say, "That's too many times with that one phrase" or whatever.

TG:

We play things for each other all the time.

AK:

We help edit each other, but we never plan it... Well, there was that time back in '82, but, we shouldn't really talk about it.

WC:

What's the most surprising or interesting thing that inspired you to write a song?

TG:

Let's answer this one for each other.  I'd say for you it's 'Silver Suitcases.'

AK:

I didn't expect it to be a song, necessarily.

TG:

Because that was true story.

AK:

Finding money by the side of the road and feeling so overwhelmed by it that I wanted to write it down that it became a song.

TG:

Where she kept dumping guys at the alter.

AK:

Surprised that movie even came out!

TG:

Also, The Wedding Singer with Adam Sadler where he got left at the alter.  And Crimes and Misdemeanors.  All three of those movies·that was surprising.

AK:

I often don't know where your inspiration comes from.  I think I know where that song comes from. But, you say, "No, it's about my third grade math teacher."  I usually assume it's about his current or ex-girlfriend because there'd be one line in it has that person.  But, he'll say, "That one line, OK maybe."

TG:

Yeah, one line is usually about a specific person.

WC:

How often do you try to figure out where the songs came from?

TG:

We usually know where each other's songs came from.

AK:

We usually ask as well.  We'd ask, "Is that a true story?"

WC:

You live a somewhat similar lifestyle·

AK:

Yeah, lots of sex with groupies.

WC:

Yeah, I know I'm holding you up from that.  But, have you ever written about a similar experience?

TG:

Good question.  I could see that, but I don't think we have.

AK:

There's got to be similar themes.  We both like the idea of poignancy with pieces of humor thrown in.  Yeah, we've written about family themes.

TG:

The road... 'Rock Star' and 'On the Road' are very similar.

AK:

They are similar in that we are making fun of ourselves.

TG:

They have almost the same lines like yours is, "They'd rather hear 'Fire and Rain,'" and mine is "Was that a flush or was someone telling me to hush?"

WC:

So, before a concert, if you are going to play 'Rock Star,' do you say, "I can't play 'On the Road?'"

AK:

No, we usually just follow each other with them.

TG:

Live, we usually say something like, "That song reminds me of this one."

TG:

Some people are, apparently, like that.  But, that's one of the best things about me, Andrew, Edie, Anne and Sam.  We are all friends.  There are people we know who are like that, but we are not good friends with those people.

AK:

But, I'm still shocked when I play a show with a friend of mine, and we are doing a split bill.  And, I find out that they are negotiating what percentage of the door that they are getting versus mine because they think their draw is higher than mine so they should get more of the take.  That's how it always, apparently, works on the business side.

TG:

We've never done that.

AK:

We always share.  We don't really care who brings in more people.

TG:

I've opened for Sam and for other friends, and that's different.  But, that's based on the venue cuz they had a gig and they needed an opener.  They ask, "Are you around because we need an opener?"  And, I say, "Yeah, sure."

AK:

And then you start negotiating how much you get paid (kidding).

WC:

How do traditional folk performers react to your brand of music with its biting humor?

TG:

We don't meet them... I've never met one.  I've seen some, but I keep my distance.

AK:

We stay away.

TG:

You only meet them at places like a Folk Alliance or a festival.

AK:

That's when we realize we are not folk.  We are solo guitar players and we're storytelling singer/songwriters.

TG:

But, we're not traditional.

AK:

Those people hate our music.

TG:

Yeah.

AK:

There are some people who abhor me.  (Teddy) at least has a few songs that they say are pretty.

TG:

No, they hate everything.

AK:

I've played in some folky venues and they say, "This is repulsive. Why are you in my room playing this crap?"

WC:

So, you learn to avoid?

TG:

It's not even that hard.  I never even see them.

AK:

They avoid you as well.

WC:

What do you call your brand of music?

TG:

Singer/songwriter.

AK:

Contemporary folk singer/songwriter.  But, if I had the money to tour with a band, they'd say I was a rock act.

TG:

Exactly, all of us do our albums with bands.

AK:

To me, as I'm listening to the radio, it reminds me that really what I do is what rock music was in the '70s.  Similar to Jackson Browne and others like him·it was literate, smart rock music.

TG:

They just did well enough to bring a band with them on the road.

AK:

People like Jackson Browne, it was really about the writing.  It was good songs.  It was pop music at the time.  We are doing 70's pop music, I guess.  How's that?

TG:

Makes us sound really hip and contemporary... we are writing pop music from my father's generation... hope the kids will enjoy this song.

AK:

Really?  I used to go to the Bitter End (club in NYC) once a month for a songwriter's circle thing.  I've seen it forever.

TG:

I guess... Shawn Colvin, Greg Brown and John Gorka did it.

AK:

And folk festivals.  It's meant to be like sitting in the living room and casual.  You are sitting on the side stages and talk about your songs and play them.

TG:

We definitely perfected that art form.

WC:

So, that's a bit of folk tradition coming into play.

TG:

Those people aren't folk either.

AK:

Yeah.  A Mighty Wind was trying to bring folk in.

TG:

Kingston Trio was folk.  Tom Paxton was folk.

AK:

Pete Seeger was folk.  When you hear folk, you know it's folk.

WC:

I've seen the in-the-round format more and more.

TG:

It works well.  It's a good way to cross paths.

AK:

It's not very rock, but it's good.

WC:

How much longer do you think Live From New York will perform together?

TG:

It's interesting that you ask that... what time is it now?

AK:

We actually don't have any dates currently scheduled.  Everyone is doing his or her own thing now.  It doesn't mean we're not going to perform together again.  Just at the moment, we're not.

WC:

It was interesting that Anne, Edie and you guys were all in town at the same time this week.

TG:

We all hung out last night.

AK:

But, everyone had their own shows... just doing their own thing.

WC:

Do all of you have specific career paths that are distinct from each other?

TG:

A couple of years ago, they were pretty similar.  Now, they are pretty distinct.  Anne is doing her own thing, Edie is pulling her's, I'm pulling mine.

AK:

I guess so.  I think, to some extent, what ties us together is that we all wanted to make a living by playing music.  That was the goal, initially.  But, Teddy's been writing for other people and he's got some songs on other records.  And, he's writing songs that are like classics the moment he writes them.

TG:

Anne is trying the rock band thing.

AK:

Edie has stayed and embraced the singer/songwriter thing as her core.  Me?  I'm just trying to get enough sleep to get through the next day since I have a young child now.  For me, my goal is to continue to play music, and enjoy it, and make a living at it.

TG:

You were doing a lot of college shows... they obviously pay pretty well.  And, they can afford you to do the $50 opening for someone you actually like.

TG:

I don't know what else I'd be doing.  I need to figure that out, though.

WC:

Tell me about writing for other people.

TG:

Not much to say right now.

AK:

Like when Faith Hill calls you up and says she needs a hit, how do you approach that?

TG:

I don't know.  I'm really new at it.  I've been co-writing with a bunch of different people.  I'm trying to find out how to get songs placed.

WC:

Teddy, you've had some success with that, haven't you?

TG:

A little bit.  I was trying to write for a publishing company for a year.  They've done a little bit of placement stuff for me.

AK:

You've gotten some stuff on TV shows.  He's got a song on a record in Germany that's pretty big.

TG:

Yeah, that's a German band.  I wrote a song with a German producer.  I just wrote the lyrics, he wrote the music.  He had dummy lyrics in there and he said, "Change these."

WC:

Is there a difference in how or what you write when you are writing for others versus for yourself?

TG:

Yeah, definitely.

AK:

You write something good.

TG:

I'm a little less personally invested in it, but thinking more about, "Does this make sense?"  In a way, it's easier.

AK:

I think you stay away... your songs tend to have some dark, comic effects.

TG:

Like 'Roller coaster,' a new song, it wouldn't be for anyone else.  I knew when I started writing it that it was gonna be just for me.            

AK:

You take out lines like, "Cutting off balls"... not as radio-friendly.  

WC:

Do you sing songs that you've written for other people?

TG:

Yeah, I did one tonight.  That song called, 'Changing.' I wrote that with three other writers.

AK:

Didn't you sing another one tonight?

TG:

Oh yeah, 'Gotta Love.'

AK:

That's definitely coverable.

WC:

Your voice changes so much when you sing.  When you write for other people, do you try to keep it little more basic?

TG:

When I'm writing with other people, I'm not really conscious of my voice.

AK:

When you wrote 'Changing,' were you hearing a woman's voice?

TG:

Yeah.  We were thinking about making it really breathy.  Almost putting in words that sound like a singer could really get into and show off their voice.

WC:

Do you have someone in mind when you write?

TG:

This is all sort of new to me.  But, this song, 'Changing' I was thinking, obviously, someone like Faith Hill would be great.  But, maybe you find a new artist that is the next Faith Hill and who hasn't gotten a good song yet.  That could be her breakout song.

WC:

Teddy, tell me about Folk Cribs (which is a short film in the style of MTV Cribs found on Goldstein's website).

TG:

It came out of Waiting for Guffman.  It's my Waiting for Guffman, but it was about folk. 

WC:

Did you get idea before you found the location or did it inspire the idea?

TG:

I thought that would be funny cuz it's my niece and nephew's playhouse at my mom's house.  So, we drove down from New York, shot all the scenes in a day, came back (to NYC) and edited it all together.

AK:

What was the other one (video clip on Teddy's website)?

TG:

We did an interview, kind of like a press junket for 'The Love Lot.'

AK:

That was hysterical.

WC:

Andrew, tell me about making the new CD.

AK:

The process was way different than any CD I made before because I had a new child and felt like it was a hard time to spend tons of money on a studio record.  But, I really wanted to make something I'd be excited and happy about, and proud of.  So, I decided instead to buy some basic gear.  And, the stuff had come to the point that I could do the whole thing on my laptop.  My three or four year old laptop, at that.  We recorded things one or two tracks at a time.  We tracked things all over the place.  A lot of friends pitched in and played on it.  Brian Winton, Melissa Ferrick's drummer, played in his apartment with two mics set up.  The drums ended up sounding better than any other drums I had before.  It reminds you that people used to make records before they could record drums on 25 tracks.  The drums are supposed to sound good without 20 microphones·they are acoustic instruments built to sound right.  The bass was recorded in my friend's girlfriend's bedroom at 2:00 in the morning.  I recorded the cello part with Matt Fish before a show at Notre Dame.  He played on 'Picture of You.'  They held the doors because it would have gotten too loud if people were allowed in.  We were in a broom closet, and ran the song through three times.

AK:

If they want to give me a lot of money.  But, I hear that people don't get a lot of money anymore with record deals.  I'm not looking for anything.  If something seemed appropriate or right, I guess I would.  But, I'm not looking for anything.

WC:

Is it holding you back?  Is there anything you can't do as an indie artist?

TG:

Yeah, billions of things. You can't get on the radio. You can't sell a lot of records.

AK:

You can't tour with a band.

TG:

Definitely holding me back.  I'm not looking for a record deal, but I wouldn't say, "No."

AK:

Looking for a deal is a ridiculous process.

TG:

They're (label) gonna come to you.  They know you're out there.

AK:

Matt (Nathanson) wanted a record deal and was annoyed for a long time that he didn't have one.  And then, finally, he got one when he was playing for 500 people every night, touring none stop all over the country.  Up until then, when he was playing coffee shops, they were soliciting stuff but said, "I don't hear a hit yet."

TG:

It's big business... a lot of money at stake.  They know what they want.

AK:

They probably come to you when you don't need them anymore.  What do I need half a million dollars for?

TG:

Yeah, you got a laptop.

AK:

I got Pro Tools.  What do I need with their money?  What would I buy... another laptop... a second computer... a 2004 Civic and trade in my '98?

WC:

What advice could you give to novice singer/songwriters?

TG:

Get out now.

AK:

Dance lessons.   Play shows, practice a lot, write a lot... just do it.

TG:

Be an opener as much as you can.

AK:

Start playing anywhere, in coffee shops, open mics, anywhere.  Just do a lot and get better.  If you're not ready to be an opener, play at local places and build a following.

WC:

You mentioned open mics...

TG:

Yeah, open mics are important.

AK:

Yeah, I played an open mic competition with John Mayer in Atlanta a couple of years ago.  I came in second, he came in first.  My point is that he was playing in open mic contests just a short time ago, and he did well.

WC:

Teddy, describe Andrew.

TG:

Does the word hot mean anything to you?  Sexy.  Boy, these questions are hard.

AK:

These are fun.

WC:

Can you describe Andrew in three words?

TG:

I'd say genuine, real, just wanting to have fun.  He wants to enjoy people.  And, if they're not into that, he says, "Fuck them."  But, most people like to be enjoyed so it works out pretty well.  And, also he's into people doing the same to him.  He's got a great sense of humor and can handle it if people come at him.  He makes fun of people and people make fun of him.  He likes to bring that out in people.  That (answer) was pretty good... good luck.

TG:

But, I'm not laughing.

AK:

Teddy's serious side is that he is a loyal, reliable sort of friend.  Someone I cherish. If you really need him, he's there.  There's no flakiness or inconsistency.  If I called him and said I needed his help, he'd be there.

TG:

That's what holds all of us together.  That's why we're friends.

AK:

You can't steal my answer.

WC: 

 Wow, thanks so much for your time!  This was a lot of fun and very enlightening.

To find out more information about Andrew Kerr, visit his website at www.andrewkerr.com.

To find out more information about Teddy Goldstein, visit his website at www.teddygoldstein.com.