Bob Andrews

Bob Andrews is an artist manager whose goal is to create a friendly and productive environment for a select group of artists and producers to make music while keeping their artist visions intact.  Beginning his career as a tour manager for bands including Uncle Tupelo, Wilco and the Bottle Rockets, he then progressed to managing a wide variety of artists and bands.  He joined the Undertow label in 1997 and has played a key role in the company's growth ever since. Read more about his take on the art of artist management and his vintage motorcycle collection.

Way Cool: 

Brief History of your personal history in the music business, and of Undertow's.

In '92 or '93, I was a tour manager for Uncle Tupelo. And I got that job because a friend of mine, Ken Coomer, was the drummer in the band. Then I worked for those guys until they broke up in '94. Then started working with Wilco from there cuz it was all the guys from Uncle Tupelo basically. And then worked for Wilco until '96 or '97 and that's when I started Undertow with a friend of mine from St. Louis.

WC:

With Wilco and Uncle Tupelo, was it always tour managing or did your duties change when you started with Wilco?

BA:

A little bit. When I started working with Wilco, I was in the office full-time and wasn't on the road. Assisting their manager and doing mail order and more coordination kind of stuff.

WC:

What was the main idea behind Undertow?

BA:

My friend, Mark Ray, had already had it going basically as a rehearsal space for a couple of bands in St. Louis and they needed a name for the lease. So he did it that way. And then it became a recording studio. Not long after that they were looking to do... Mark works for an ad agency and they were looking to do a compilation of a bunch of bands for one of their clients so he hired me to do that as freelance. And, that became an Undertow project. I had already started managing a couple of bands by then, and had stopped working for Wilco by then, so I just put it all under the Undertow umbrella then.

BA:

Being on the road with Uncle Tupelo and Wilco all the time, I met tons of bands who probably opened for them or were fans or whatever. I know Dolly Varden I met at a Bottle Rockets show... they had the same manager as Wilco.  They (Dolly Varden) were opening for the Bottle Rockets. And Centro-matic, all those guys were in another band that opened for Uncle Tupelo a bunch.  Then, they opened for Wilco for a few shows.  I kept in touch with them. And when I left, it seemed like a logical thing to do.

WC:

Did they (Centro-matic and Dolly Varden) have a manager at the time or where they doing it on their own?

BA:

They were kinda doing it on their own. Neither of them had managers. And they seemed like they were at the point were they could use managers, and I could use bands so it worked out just right.

WC:

So, now in 2004 what are your current job responsibilities?

BA:

It's kinda different for every band. For Dolly Varden, it's like Steve and I are co-managers, he's in the band. He (Steve) does a lot of the legwork and I just do the bigger picture stuff. For someone like Jesse Harris or Pedro the Lion or American Music Club, we make all the plans together, but I do all of the legwork. It's a little different for every band. Glossary isn't as busy as everybody else so they don't need as much hands on as everybody else. I just do stuff when they need it.

WC:

Do you consider yourself a manager or a label owner?  When somebody asks, "What do you do for a living" what do you say?

BA:

I'm definitely a manager. The label thing has always been pretty secondary to me just because being a band manager is what I've done from the start.

WC:

What is a day in the life like for you?

BA:

Hmm. I usually get up and take my kid to the nanny's house. He just turned a year old. So, I usually get up with him and take him, get back here, go by the Starbucks... that's a requirement. Here by 10 a.m. or so. The first hour or so is usually always answering emails that came in the night before. Then the phone starts ringing and I'm on the phone all day. It's pretty cut and dry.

WC:

Do you have a sense of what you'll be handling every day or is it different all the time?

BA:

It's different stuff all the time. I know when a band's on tour, for sure there is always gonna be the 4:00 p.m. phone call to see whose on the guest list, to see what's going on for the day.  Usually there's a daily check in with each person on the roster.  It's kinda different for everyone. Like Jesse Harris is a morning guy so I talk to him first, and then Will from Centro-matic is the next guy.  There's not a set up, just sort of an intuition of when to call those guys everyday.

WC:

What kinds of things do you discuss?

BA:

This is gonna sound totally lame, but with Will, it's always baseball. The thing with Will that's pretty interesting is that we never talk about band stuff... we talk about band stuff about once a week. The rest of the time, we talk about baseball, you know music and shows we've seen... stuff like that. But, then a lot of it happens over email. We'll just catch up and say "hey," and as emails come in, we'll forward stuff back and forth.

WC:

So, it's continuing that relationship?

BA:

Yeah. I'm friends with everyone that I work with so it's nice to have the excuse to talk to them everyday.

WC:

What's the busiest time for you and the band to be working with each other?

BA:

There're actually two busy cycles with each band, maybe three. When they are making a record is pretty busy cuz you're trying to coordinate everything, make sure all the studio time is booked and the musicians have to know where they have to be. And, again that's different for every band. Like for Centro-matic, they are all in that band so they take care of themselves as far as when they are gonna do stuff. But, Jesse Harris, everybody in his band is a hired guy so you have to coordinate all of those guys for Jesse. Then you get really busy a couple months right before a record comes out. Cuz there's all that set-up, the publicity plan, the radio plan and the retail plan, all that stuff has to come together and get coordinated with everything else. And, the week before they go on tour is probably the busiest time cuz that's when you're trying to get everything set up. There's a last minute rush to get interviews set up for when they are on the road or last minute photo shoots for magazines in whatever town they're in. It's those three, making the record, right before it comes and when they're on tour is busy. Oddly enough, once they're on the road, it kinda quiets down. There's usually a tour manager taking care of the day-to-day stuff.  Like I said, the once-a-day check in to see what's going on. All the tours get booked three months in advance. Maybe that's why it seems so busy, cuz the tours are getting booked three months in advance, which is when you start working on the set-up for the record release too. Right now, we are working on Jesse's record that comes out in July. So we're doing publicity stuff and radio and retail plan together. And, at the same time, we're working on booking his tour. So it seems doubly busy right now for him.

WC:

What other behind-the-scenes people do you work with the most?

BA:

Booking agents and publicists seem like the ones... and there's one person at each label that is a marketing manager or product manager that I work with on almost a daily basis. Those three, booking agent, publicist and product manager for the label.

WC:

Totally naive question, but you manage artists that are both on Undertow and on major labels... how does that work?

BA:

Yeah, it's kinda weird. We've always run it financially as a separate company from the management company. But, as of a few months ago, things just got so busy with the management company, I'm not really doing that much with the label. I'm sort of a consultant now. I'll send music to those guys, have them check stuff out. Give them advice every now and then. But, they pretty much do all the business stuff for the label through the St. Louis office now.  Mark Ray and Chris Grabau are both super cool. I've known those guys forever. Mark for probably 10 years now. But, it's a little bit of weird cross-over, I guess, in the fact that a lot of people would think there's a conflict of interest to be the label and the manager. But, we've put financial conditions in place that I don't take any commissions from record sales as the band manager. So there is no me making money from the record and the band that sells records for my label; that'd be weird. We don't do anything like that. And, our contracts are so amazingly easy to get out of so if someone didn't want to be on the label, they could get out of it just by saying so. Nobody is tied up for a period of time. I actually had a lawyer look at our contract and he said, "Are you sure? That doesn't look like a very good contract for you."  I wanted the artist to be able to get out of it if they need to or want to.  I think a contract is kind of a weird thing anyway·make somebody do something they don't want to do in the first place. That's all it is. It's just something they do to enforce actions they don't want to take. So, I think having a contract with someone is kind of a lame thing to do anymore.

WC:

How do you work with a major label? Do you and the band get to make decisions and you bring it to the label or what?

BA:

Ideally. Luckily, I have a really great relationship with everyone at Jesse's label. Ann, the marketing manager, and I run ideas past each other all the time and then we just boil them down to what are the most effective things to do. So, yeah, with those guys, we definitely pitch ideas. A lot of the time, it's financially looking at the bigger picture and seeing how much these ideas are gonna cost. To maximize our money. Instead of spending $60K on print ads, why don't we spend $10k on smaller ads and spread them out over a longer period of time instead of a bunch of single page ads run at the beginning. It's little stuff like that. It's sort of tweaking the ideas we've already come up with.

WC:

What's the process for an artist to become part of the Undertow family?

BA:

I don't know.  That's a hard thing to explain. There's the math part of it, having enough time to work with somebody. That part's pretty easy to figure out. I'm pretty busy all of the time. There's always that sort of thing hanging over my head·will I have the time to do a good job for this person or this band? That's usually the first consideration before I even think about working with someone. Wait, let me back up. We have to love, love, love their music. You can't work for a band unless you love them, it just doesn't work.  So much of my job is to convince other people to like the band too. And you can't do that unless you're really into it. I can always spot the salesman, you know? I have such a pet peeve about dudes trying to sell me something.

WC:

Do you think that's unique to Undertow?

BA:

I hope so. There's got to be others, tons of people who do that. But, the financial thing is such the last thing we think about. There are bands we've been working with forever who we've probably never made a dime from. But, they're great bands and we love them as people and, eventually, I know things will work out for them. But, you have to love the music and they have to be great people to work with. It's someone I'm going to be talking with on the phone every day so I want it to be able to have a relationship with them that's not just business. And, then it's the 'do we have time to do it?' factor.

WC:

For a person who does sign with Undertow, do they typically stay with you guys or see it as a stepping-stone to a major?

BA:

That's what I tell everyone. I'm perfectly fine being the "farm team" label. If you want to put a record out here and try to establish yourself and then move up some place else. That's why our contracts are so flexible and easy to get out of. I'm totally cool with that. There's this band called the Redwalls that we signed to our label. And before we even had their record out, they got signed to Capitol for their next record, which is awesome, totally great and amazing for those guys. And it could only benefit us in the long run cuz we'll still have their old record in our catalogue to sell once they put their new record out on Capitol. So it's a good thing for us if a band gets on a bigger label. Financially it is. For the band, too since there's more money to market records.

WC:

So, it's not seen as jumping ship?

BA:

Oh no, not at all. Whatever anybody can do to make a living making music is sort of our first priority. And, if somebody wants to stay with Undertow·like with Jay Bennett, he put out his first record with Undertow. I thought, for sure, he'd want to jump ship, but he wants to stick around. He loves what we do and doesn't feel like there's any pressure to sell X number of records. And there's no pressure for him to make a certain kind of record. Which is what a lot of major labels do, they get involved with how they want to present you and how they want your music to sound. There's a lot more pressure to sell more records, and I don't think he's into that part of it.  He's sold enough records with his first record that he could have easily moved to a bigger label. But, he chose to stick around, which is nice.

WC:

Have you had the experience that when someone does sign to a major label that there's a real conflict in that they have a different concept than what you and the band originally had?

BA:

Yeah, you're almost always gonna get that. Major labels are good at telling you one thing when they are trying to sign you and then doing something else when you get there. But, the end result is that all want to sell records. Which, ultimately, is good for the band. I think you just have to try to find the shortest route to doing it the way you want to do it, and usually major labels don't know how to do that.

WC:

What defines an Undertow artist, any theme or sound or style that when you hear someone, you say, "That's an Undertow artist?"

BA:

I hope not. We're making a sampler with a couple tracks from each band. And, it's really hard to sequence cuz everyone sounds so different from each other. There weren't obvious songs that go together. So, the only common thing is that everybody writes great songs, but they're all completely different styles and kinds of music.

WC:

In this business climate, how has Undertow remained successful?

BA:

I think it's easier than ever for indie labels and for management companies working with indie bands cuz there're more outlets. There's iTunes and downloads... e-music is a great source to get music nowadays. Selling direct from your website is a pretty amazing way to make money for your bands. I don't think major label bands have that kind of direct access to their fans most of the time.  With Jay Bennett's record, we sold enough of them before the record even came out to pay for the whole record. He's got a pretty loyal fan base and the second they were on the website, we sold a pretty big chunk of those right away.

WC:

What's the future for Undertow? Where do you see it in five years?

BA:

Ideally, I'd love to working with the exact same roster of bands, all doing twice as well. I feel sort of obligated... that's the other thing about taking on other bands. I really consider everyone else on the roster before I even think about somebody else. Just to make sure I'm not short-changing those guys to take on somebody new. Like, Pedro the Lion, they're the newest band on the roster, they've been on for six or eight months now. In five years, I'd love for those guys to be selling three times as many records and touring twice as much.

WC:

How did you make the relationship with Pedro the Lion?

BA:

WC:

It seems to be a really small world.

BA:

It really is. There's probably like 20 people in the entire universe and they all work in indie rock.

WC:

That also makes sense that you have to build up these relationships cuz it's all word-of-mouth.

BA:

Absolutely. It works both ways. There's a lawyer I work with for a bunch of my bands. And when I hear a band is looking for a lawyer, I whole-heartedly recommend this guy. He's like the coolest guy on the planet. I think a lot of people get their client base built up by being a good guy and not screwing people over, and trying to do the right things for the bands. I think that word gets around a lot when you're not a jackass.

WC:

Going back to the business side, what qualities or personality traits do you see as see in someone who succeeds in working at an indie label?

BA:

Oh wow... being able to answer their email. I don't know. Everybody I know that's in this business is pretty different. There's not a singular quality I can pick out as what makes you good at doing this. Just loving music and loving being around people who make music is the one thing, I guess.

WC:

Any advice for someone trying to get into this business? Not as an artist, but someone behind-the-scenes?

BA:

I think a really cool thing to do, kinda of like what I did, is to go out and tour manage a band. Or even if you go out and sell merchandise for a band. Just do something where you're touring and going out to a bunch of clubs. Just because I think that helped me in a huge way over the years because I've been to every crappy club on the planet. I've been to good ones too. But you get this experience that you can talk to bands about. I have a lot of stuff in common with all the bands. Even though I don't tour anymore, I know where they've been. And, I've been to places they've haven't been to yet. I can let them know which places are cool and which aren't. The other thing is that you're sending these bands on the road to be away from their friends and family for weeks at a time, you want to have some sort of understanding of what that's gonna mean to them. So you have a little empathy for their situation when they're away from home for so long. Most of the guys I work with are married, some have kids, girlfriends or boyfriends at home... and it's hard. Being gone for six or eight weeks at a time is really tough.  And, I don't think I would be able to be as sympathetic to their situation if I hadn't done that myself. I think it's a really important thing to do. You hear someone getting an office job at a label right away, and they don't get the touring thing at all.  That's another great thing too... I've made so many relationships along the way with club owners or radio stations and record stores just by being out there, stopping in to say hi to them.

WC:

Great. What are your other interests outside of the music industry?

BA:

I'm really into old vintage motorcycles. I'm a big fan of old, BMW motorcycles. I'm super into old, vintage, hi-fi tube stereos... I've got way more than my wife knows about. Or, if she knew about, I'd be in big trouble. Let me back up... my kid, my wife and then old motorcycles and old stereos.

WC:

Do you rebuild?

BA:

For a while.  Before I got married and had a lot of garage space and was single and had spare time, I did a lot of rebuilding motorcycles. But, as soon as I got married, I sold all but one. I kept the one that worked all the time and sold all the rest of the motorcycles. There's not enough time in the day to mess with them anymore. The older I get, the more I just want to pay someone to do it for me.  My time is worth more. When I got into the old stereo stuff, that was kind of a nice thing too cuz there's no way I can work on those. So, they have to go into the shop if their broken. And, you get a lot out of them, cuz that's what you used to listen to music with. Even though I have eight stereos, I rotate them in and listen to them all the time... which is something my wife doesn't understand.

WC:

Do any of your artists print vinyl?

BA:

Oh yeah. Pedro the Lion does LPs for all of their records. American Music Club is going to do an LP.  Centro-matic has done 7-inch singles.  I'm kinda of a big vinyl nerd. Dolly Varden has done LPs.

WC:

I'm sure some young people don't even know what vinyl is to encourage their artists to print vinyl.

WC:

But, you've found e-music is successful for your bands?

BA:

Yeah, it is. You just have to know that there are people out there that aren't gonna buy CDs.  It's obvious the way iTunes has been selling that it's the way it's gonna end up... sadly for us old, vintage stereo nerds. But, you can still buy CDs, I'm sure

WC:

There is still a market for vinyl. You get to be the real connoisseur of that stuff. And, I don't think eBay is going away.

BA:

Yeah. I get a lot of stuff from eBay. Thank God for eBay!

WC:

Any local, up and coming artists we should be keeping an eye on?

BA:

I can't think of anybody from Chicago. The last thing I heard that I thought was really amazing was a band from Ireland, The Amazing Pilots. I think they are from Ireland or maybe the UK. It's weird, I get a lot of stuff in the mail from bands from Chicago and a lot of its not so great. I get lots of Dave Matthews-type influenced cover bands, and then lots of heavy metal. I understand this, I get lots of alt-country stuff. Really twangy, countrified rock music. Which, I guess, is from the Uncle Tupelo connection. But, I'm not really into stuff so much.

WC:

Who else?

BA:

The Amazing Pilots, who might put out their record on Undertow... I'm not sure if it's gonna work out, but they're really great.  There's this band called The Frames who I really love from Ireland. There's a band from Chicago that I really love, The Fruit Bats. They put their records out on Sub Pop, a really great band. There's a band from Oklahoma called Ester Drang that I really love.  I'm trying to think of all of the bands I want to manage, but don't have the time.

WC: 

That's it. Thanks so much for your time.

Visit the Undertow website at www.undertowmusic.com.